胡大一:“不问 不望 不听”

2017-07-07 胡大一 微信公号“胡大一”

问诊与望触叩听或望闻问切不仅是诊病的必须,是重要的基本功,也是贴近患者的一种touching,让医患更加贴近。

一个东北患者,在省会做冠状动脉介入最多的一所大学附属医院住院后,带着复印的厚厚病历和两大袋子影像片,赶到山东淄博博山民营医院找我看病。她的一位朋友在博山,得知我在该医院出诊的时间。

见到的第一面,就能感觉到患者面部表情明显焦虑不安。患者女性,63岁,三个月来经常在静息时或夜间胸闷,心悸,出汗,觉得气不够用,喜长出气,乏力,睡眠不好,有入睡困难和早醒。有10年高血压病史,无糖尿病,血脂正常,吸烟20余年,每日3-4支。一直服药,血压控制稳定在120-130/70-80mmHg。胸部不适等症状,持续时间半小时至数小时不等,甚至整日感不适。生气着急时加重,运动中从未发作。

住院期间,查了冠状动脉CT,无异常;查了脑CT,无异常;甲状腺功能正常;超声心动图正常;多次静息心电图正常;24小时动态心电图偶有室性早搏。

入出院诊断,高度一致:冠心病、不稳定性心绞痛。

给患者处方的药物:阿司匹林、替格瑞洛(自费)、倍他乐克、地尔硫卓、异舒吉、阿托伐他汀(20mg)。

患者出院后,症状非但丝毫不减轻,而且加重。才在丈夫陪同下,从省会大都市来到了小城镇。

患者为绝经期女性,有高血压与吸烟史,但临床表现明确不是心绞痛。无论劳力型,还是静息型(包括变异型),心绞痛的持续时间不可能持续半小时至数小时。生气着急加重,有气不够用,喜出长气的动作,症状多而泛化。有睡眠障碍。冠状动脉CT无任何血管狭窄,主观感觉和客观检查都可排除冠心病和心绞痛,更符合焦虑和抑郁。

精神科的曲姗大夫与患者沟通过程中,患者明确很抵触焦虑和抑郁的问题,也不愿更深入沟通生活经历。但患者的丈夫认同妻子有精神心理障碍。

我接着与患者谈,不强求她接受焦虑和抑郁的诊断,和她商量,既然出院带的药用后无效,症状还加重了,可不可以换个角度,改变一下治疗方案。如把睡眠问题解决一下(很多改善睡眠的药物也有抗焦虑/抑郁作用)。患者终于同意了我的建议,愿意更改治疗方案。

2000年我刚到北大人民医院不久,一次查房时,听诊一位老年患者,表现为典型的主动脉瓣狭窄。而病历记录上写着各瓣膜听诊区未闻杂音,而患者入院后很快做了冠状动脉造影,未见异常。我问为什么造影?主管医生回答说,患者有劳力型心绞痛和心电图胸前导联T波深倒置。我看了患者多次心电图表现一致,未明显动态变化。这位患者的杂音,只要听诊,不应漏掉。显然没有用听诊器。杂音--劳力型心绞痛--心电图表现均符合重度主动脉瓣狭窄。如果重视基本功,诊断一点都不困难。如果先诊断重度二尖瓣狭窄,患者有手术适应证,又有心绞痛,术前做冠状动脉造影,除外冠心病是必要的。因为如有并存的冠状动脉狭窄,手术换瓣同时完成冠状动脉搭桥。但这位患者的诊断流程显然本末倒置,而且忽略了听诊环节,造了影,也不知该诊断什么。

有一位心内科“专家”,还当过大学领导,在许多公共场合大讲:“听诊器”是“煤油灯”,CT造影是日光灯,现在一些老医生抱着“煤油灯”不放,不知用日光灯。这种“专家”当学校领导,能把医学教育引向何处?

我门诊用听诊器听心脏时,很多患者觉得很温暖,觉得医生亲切,负责任。问诊与望触叩听或望闻问切不仅是诊病的必须,是重要的基本功,也是贴近患者的一种touching,让医患更加贴近。

我在北大医院工作23年,多年带医学生物诊,很有感触。早年下乡,去阿里和河西走廊医疗队,哪有什么CT,磁共振,导管室?连超声心动图都没有,全靠临床基本功。现在影像技术的发展本是好事,但因此冷落了临床基本功,可能浪费更多的医疗资源,过度使用有高成本有创伤或损伤的检查,反而误漏诊。

曾看过一位著名漫画家的一幅漫画。画的是一位医生为一患者诊病,拿出了听诊器,患者称赞说,您还有听诊器啊!好久没见医生用了。没想到医生没有用听诊器放在患者的腹部,却一下放到了装钱包的口袋上。幽默的一针见血!

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encryptionId=94bb83e90b7, topicName=胡大一)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=7eeb2500172, createdName=haouestc, createdTime=Sun Jul 09 04:32:00 CST 2017, time=2017-07-09, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219766, encodeId=9ab2219e6663, content=基本功不能丢啊!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=69, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NcXNhUvfhzd2SEXGDldsNfP4rKvY7vJmaHcyvLXicuyaCTJtVOkX3jvd6DwNMD88hDjJwsU7MnUH6zeqC4zt3yGV/0, createdBy=4e701628585, createdName=flyingzyx, createdTime=Sat Jul 08 07:12:30 CST 2017, time=2017-07-08, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219656, encodeId=63e321965628, content=不错的文章值得学习, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=56, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=04f22055142, createdName=131****2916, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 23:09:43 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219633, encodeId=e7662196335e, content=基础技能的缺失,是因为老一辈的“”传帮带”断了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=35, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 21:08:58 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219610, encodeId=1116219610f6, content=学习了,的确现在一些医生停了电就不会诊断, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=32, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], 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    2017-07-09 lyh994

    临床基本功,很多医生查房时都省了。病人从入院到出院,甚至一次都没查过体,全靠辅助检查

    0

  2. 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channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=30, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NfJxAMaRw4seBNmafcU8US5DLLML0779mqUAbRw91pNMgpTicsVkzUicITMdxkeMuFX8XKibDofTOFBqTFTgz2tkA8/0, createdBy=139e1963688, createdName=1e142deam58(暂无匿称), createdTime=Fri Jul 07 18:08:14 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2017-07-09 李东泽

    基本功要练,要练基本功,基本功不能少啊。检查也有必要啊。

    0

  3. 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encryptionId=94bb83e90b7, topicName=胡大一)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=7eeb2500172, createdName=haouestc, createdTime=Sun Jul 09 04:32:00 CST 2017, time=2017-07-09, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219766, encodeId=9ab2219e6663, content=基本功不能丢啊!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=69, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NcXNhUvfhzd2SEXGDldsNfP4rKvY7vJmaHcyvLXicuyaCTJtVOkX3jvd6DwNMD88hDjJwsU7MnUH6zeqC4zt3yGV/0, createdBy=4e701628585, createdName=flyingzyx, createdTime=Sat Jul 08 07:12:30 CST 2017, time=2017-07-08, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219656, encodeId=63e321965628, content=不错的文章值得学习, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=56, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=04f22055142, createdName=131****2916, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 23:09:43 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219633, encodeId=e7662196335e, content=基础技能的缺失,是因为老一辈的“”传帮带”断了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=35, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 21:08:58 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219610, encodeId=1116219610f6, content=学习了,的确现在一些医生停了电就不会诊断, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=32, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/ajNVdqHZLLCYbPBa7AiaIy1pMpp7CF9lHORw4icR9GOrMO6RVNCb1qSUSY9TFBzW5zlrpDia0HKafiarjvcweMaVdg/0, createdBy=f1d61928636, createdName=simayunhe, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 19:35:09 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219598, encodeId=a72a219598f7, content=学习了,谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=40, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mONcle9pic3zSn0GqHrsfLGSUSR8zwnWWLT4FMl5XH8S58HuZslVkLsAPbXDXaliagK7TOxQfmngKibG1yrDonepCLDkcxGk8hS/0, createdBy=b8282062892, createdName=changjiu, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 19:16:30 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219583, encodeId=1c42219583bc, content=不能过度依赖诊疗工具,还是要多动脑筋,多练基本功, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=30, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NfJxAMaRw4seBNmafcU8US5DLLML0779mqUAbRw91pNMgpTicsVkzUicITMdxkeMuFX8XKibDofTOFBqTFTgz2tkA8/0, createdBy=139e1963688, createdName=1e142deam58(暂无匿称), createdTime=Fri Jul 07 18:08:14 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2017-07-09 艳阳天2016

    基本工是基石

    0

  4. 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attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/ajNVdqHZLLCYbPBa7AiaIy1pMpp7CF9lHORw4icR9GOrMO6RVNCb1qSUSY9TFBzW5zlrpDia0HKafiarjvcweMaVdg/0, createdBy=f1d61928636, createdName=simayunhe, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 19:35:09 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219598, encodeId=a72a219598f7, content=学习了,谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=40, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mONcle9pic3zSn0GqHrsfLGSUSR8zwnWWLT4FMl5XH8S58HuZslVkLsAPbXDXaliagK7TOxQfmngKibG1yrDonepCLDkcxGk8hS/0, createdBy=b8282062892, createdName=changjiu, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 19:16:30 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219583, encodeId=1c42219583bc, content=不能过度依赖诊疗工具,还是要多动脑筋,多练基本功, beContent=null, objectType=article, 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  5. 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channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=30, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NfJxAMaRw4seBNmafcU8US5DLLML0779mqUAbRw91pNMgpTicsVkzUicITMdxkeMuFX8XKibDofTOFBqTFTgz2tkA8/0, createdBy=139e1963688, createdName=1e142deam58(暂无匿称), createdTime=Fri Jul 07 18:08:14 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2017-07-08 flyingzyx

    基本功不能丢啊!

    0

  6. 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encryptionId=94bb83e90b7, topicName=胡大一)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=7eeb2500172, createdName=haouestc, createdTime=Sun Jul 09 04:32:00 CST 2017, time=2017-07-09, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219766, encodeId=9ab2219e6663, content=基本功不能丢啊!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=69, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NcXNhUvfhzd2SEXGDldsNfP4rKvY7vJmaHcyvLXicuyaCTJtVOkX3jvd6DwNMD88hDjJwsU7MnUH6zeqC4zt3yGV/0, createdBy=4e701628585, createdName=flyingzyx, createdTime=Sat Jul 08 07:12:30 CST 2017, time=2017-07-08, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219656, encodeId=63e321965628, content=不错的文章值得学习, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=56, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=04f22055142, createdName=131****2916, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 23:09:43 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219633, encodeId=e7662196335e, content=基础技能的缺失,是因为老一辈的“”传帮带”断了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=35, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 21:08:58 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219610, encodeId=1116219610f6, content=学习了,的确现在一些医生停了电就不会诊断, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=32, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/ajNVdqHZLLCYbPBa7AiaIy1pMpp7CF9lHORw4icR9GOrMO6RVNCb1qSUSY9TFBzW5zlrpDia0HKafiarjvcweMaVdg/0, createdBy=f1d61928636, createdName=simayunhe, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 19:35:09 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219598, encodeId=a72a219598f7, content=学习了,谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=40, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mONcle9pic3zSn0GqHrsfLGSUSR8zwnWWLT4FMl5XH8S58HuZslVkLsAPbXDXaliagK7TOxQfmngKibG1yrDonepCLDkcxGk8hS/0, createdBy=b8282062892, createdName=changjiu, createdTime=Fri Jul 07 19:16:30 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219583, encodeId=1c42219583bc, content=不能过度依赖诊疗工具,还是要多动脑筋,多练基本功, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=30, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NfJxAMaRw4seBNmafcU8US5DLLML0779mqUAbRw91pNMgpTicsVkzUicITMdxkeMuFX8XKibDofTOFBqTFTgz2tkA8/0, createdBy=139e1963688, createdName=1e142deam58(暂无匿称), createdTime=Fri Jul 07 18:08:14 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2017-07-07 131****2916

    不错的文章值得学习

    0

  7. 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channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=30, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NfJxAMaRw4seBNmafcU8US5DLLML0779mqUAbRw91pNMgpTicsVkzUicITMdxkeMuFX8XKibDofTOFBqTFTgz2tkA8/0, createdBy=139e1963688, createdName=1e142deam58(暂无匿称), createdTime=Fri Jul 07 18:08:14 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2017-07-07 戒馋,懒,贪

    基础技能的缺失,是因为老一辈的“”传帮带”断了

    0

  8. 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channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=30, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NfJxAMaRw4seBNmafcU8US5DLLML0779mqUAbRw91pNMgpTicsVkzUicITMdxkeMuFX8XKibDofTOFBqTFTgz2tkA8/0, createdBy=139e1963688, createdName=1e142deam58(暂无匿称), createdTime=Fri Jul 07 18:08:14 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2017-07-07 simayunhe

    学习了,的确现在一些医生停了电就不会诊断

    0

  9. 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encryptionId=94bb83e90b7, topicName=胡大一)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=7eeb2500172, createdName=haouestc, createdTime=Sun Jul 09 04:32:00 CST 2017, time=2017-07-09, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219766, encodeId=9ab2219e6663, content=基本功不能丢啊!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=69, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NcXNhUvfhzd2SEXGDldsNfP4rKvY7vJmaHcyvLXicuyaCTJtVOkX3jvd6DwNMD88hDjJwsU7MnUH6zeqC4zt3yGV/0, createdBy=4e701628585, createdName=flyingzyx, createdTime=Sat Jul 08 07:12:30 CST 2017, time=2017-07-08, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=219656, encodeId=63e321965628, content=不错的文章值得学习, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=56, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, 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channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=30, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NfJxAMaRw4seBNmafcU8US5DLLML0779mqUAbRw91pNMgpTicsVkzUicITMdxkeMuFX8XKibDofTOFBqTFTgz2tkA8/0, createdBy=139e1963688, createdName=1e142deam58(暂无匿称), createdTime=Fri Jul 07 18:08:14 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2017-07-07 changjiu

    学习了,谢谢

    0

  10. 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channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=30, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/mStl88fu4NfJxAMaRw4seBNmafcU8US5DLLML0779mqUAbRw91pNMgpTicsVkzUicITMdxkeMuFX8XKibDofTOFBqTFTgz2tkA8/0, createdBy=139e1963688, createdName=1e142deam58(暂无匿称), createdTime=Fri Jul 07 18:08:14 CST 2017, time=2017-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2017-07-07 1e142deam58(暂无匿称)

    不能过度依赖诊疗工具,还是要多动脑筋,多练基本功

    0

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