中国民营医院发展很大的困境是医保!

2018-05-05 李草凡 “看医界”微信号

从小儿外科专家到公立医院院长,再到现代医院管理的实践者和研究者,复旦医院管理研究所所长、原上海申康医院发展中心副主任高解春教授在数十载的职业生涯中以多种身份深度参与了中国医疗健康事业的发展与改革。

从小儿外科专家到公立医院院长,再到现代医院管理的实践者和研究者,复旦医院管理研究所所长、原上海申康医院发展中心副主任高解春教授在数十载的职业生涯中以多种身份深度参与了中国医疗健康事业的发展与改革。在本轮新医改迈向第10个年头之际,他与《看医界》分享了对医疗改革、社会资本办医等焦点话题的精彩观点。

中国民营医院发展最大困境的是医保!

·高教授,关于社会资本办医,国家年年鼓励,近10年来民营医院的数量也有了长足增长,但同时超级医院也成为一个话题,大医院的虹吸效应越来越明显。怎么解读这种现象?

高解春:直观感受不一定准确,真实的情况是:医改前公立医院的数量占90%以上,现在不到50%;上海相对保守,但民营医院也有了很大发展。10年以前我预测非公立医院数量会超过50%,没有人敢相信,现在全国的民营医院数量上已经超过了公立医院。

在床位数和服务量上,民营医院要取得更多的占有率,跟国家的政策有关,最主要的就是医保。这里我想呼吁一下“民办非营利医院”的概念,长期以来我们认为公立等于非营利,民办等于营利,在国外民办医院中有2/3左右恰恰是非营利的。

民办非营利医院应该享有公立医院同等待遇,最主要的就是医保支付。但现实是医保对公立医院几乎不拒付,尽管不合规现象比比皆是,也不敢取消它的医保定点资格;而民营医院尽管做得很好,要拿到医保资格还是很难,支付比例也太低,好像是一种恩赐。随着观念的改变和改革的深入,这一块一定会有很大突破。

大医院已大到不符合管理学原理!

另一方面,国家已经明确要严控大医院规模。2006年我带队去哈佛考察,在课堂上问萧庆伦教授:医院多大是合适的?他回答:传统医院管理之下800-1000个床位是合适的,现代医院管理可以支撑1500-2000个床位。我告诉他中国已经在发展4000个床位的医院了,他说了两句话很经典,第一句话:“那是上帝管的医院”。后来我的一个研究生做的课题得出结论,医院超过1500个床位以后规模效应不是大了而是小了,不再符合管理学的有关原理。第二句话:“为什么要建一个很大的医院,让老百姓从四面八方赶过来看病,而不是把这个医院同质化地分成若干个医院,让老百姓就近看病?”

现在我们搞医联体,不管是横向还是纵向的资源整合,就是要让老百姓就近就能看病,这才是分级诊疗真正的意义,它的核心就是技术同质化下沉。在医院的规模设置上我们走过一段弯路,应该在当初准入的时候就把好关。这牵涉到另外一个问题:地方保护主义。所幸我们对此已经有所认识,国家卫健委已经几次委托我做相关课题,我提出多院区管理、必要的时候分解法人的对策。课题已经结题,实施还有待时机。

一批多点执业医生或将转变成民营医院老板

·盘点医改,就不能不提到改革中的新生事物。您对多点执业、体制内外的各种医生集团怎么看?

高解春:多点执业存在争议,所有的医生都希望多点执业,希望有更多自由,但所有的院长都不太乐意。面对这个问题,不妨回顾一下20年前企业改革时的状况。当时政府鼓励国有企业的工程师利用周末下农村,为什么?和现在公立医院的医生一样,这些工程师也是国家培养的,从国家的角度来说,优质资源上多下少,所以鼓励他们下去。现在基层需要医疗技术,但医疗人才大量地在上面,所以国家为了鼓励资源下沉,就鼓励多点执业,甚至都不需要原单位同意。

但院长们不乐意:这个医生是我培养的。这是因为中国公立医院的医生是单位人,归医院所有,和医院之间是雇佣关系;而全世界的医生(除了古巴和朝鲜)都是自由执业者,他们和医院是契约关系,他可以约定好我四天在你这里,还有一天去别的医院执业,自然就形成了多点执业。我们在现有体制下搞多点执业,会带来矛盾。

但是从管理的角度说,在现有体制下是解不开这个矛盾的,除非改变医生的身份归属。当初的星期六工程师,有一部分变成了中国最早的民营企业家,如果有一批多点执业的医生最终转变成民营医院的老板,这也符合多元办医的方向。当多元办医的格局形成之后,反过来又将构成对公立医院的竞争,促进他们的改革。

医生集团的主要模式应该是合伙制

现在有一批自由执业的医生抱团组成了共同利益体,但中国的医生集团和真正意义上的医生集团又有不一样。标准的医生集团管理模式应该是合伙制,每一个医生的地位是平等的,权利是相同的。我们大多数的医生集团内部仍然是雇佣关系,不是合伙制。这当然是出于自愿选择,但目前的医生集团在自身改造方面、在管理理念和发挥每一个人的积极性方面,还存在一定的问题。我认为股份制不应该是医生集团的主要模式,合伙制才是。

实际上没有资本、光有技术是很难办医的,大多数医生集团背后都有资本的支撑。现在也有一些医生集团走向了医疗集团,建立自己的医疗机构,等于是走向了民营医院。这和典型的医生集团是有区别的。最经典的合伙制就是律师和律师事务所,会计师审计师和他们的事务所,以及医生集团和联合诊所,值得我们好好研究和学习借鉴。

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topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=93f31631454, createdName=1dd8c52fm63(暂无匿称), createdTime=Sun May 06 06:12:30 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312412, encodeId=18e43124128e, content=技术力量.道德水平, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=46, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=http://thirdwx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/vi_32/Q0j4TwGTfTKibA62IFMeUJEmSyIe8DvYFeERuOsfrRd8iano7nENqQU1dRR3tqeQOUL3eqgYgEZRT2t2iaEsib0JEw/132, createdBy=66771693911, createdName=易水河, createdTime=Sun May 06 06:05:08 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312384, encodeId=1e24312384bd, content=我们这边还好 有几家没有因此受限, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=46, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], 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  4. 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attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=a35e76003, createdName=871538379, createdTime=Sun May 06 05:26:26 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312355, encodeId=96b83123558f, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=20, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sun May 06 00:02:10 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312350, encodeId=5c2631235014, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=23, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sat May 05 23:52:12 CST 2018, time=2018-05-05, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-05-06 一天没事干

    民营医院.有时候挺好的.有时候就很被动

    0

  5. 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createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sat May 05 23:52:12 CST 2018, time=2018-05-05, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-05-06 明月清辉

    谢谢分享.学习了

    0

  6. 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topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=93f31631454, createdName=1dd8c52fm63(暂无匿称), createdTime=Sun May 06 06:12:30 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312412, encodeId=18e43124128e, content=技术力量.道德水平, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=46, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=http://thirdwx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/vi_32/Q0j4TwGTfTKibA62IFMeUJEmSyIe8DvYFeERuOsfrRd8iano7nENqQU1dRR3tqeQOUL3eqgYgEZRT2t2iaEsib0JEw/132, createdBy=66771693911, createdName=易水河, createdTime=Sun May 06 06:05:08 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312384, encodeId=1e24312384bd, content=我们这边还好 有几家没有因此受限, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=46, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=a35e76003, createdName=871538379, createdTime=Sun May 06 05:26:26 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312355, encodeId=96b83123558f, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=20, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sun May 06 00:02:10 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312350, encodeId=5c2631235014, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=23, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sat May 05 23:52:12 CST 2018, time=2018-05-05, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-05-06 1dd8c52fm63(暂无匿称)

    了解了解.继续关注

    0

  7. 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topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=93f31631454, createdName=1dd8c52fm63(暂无匿称), createdTime=Sun May 06 06:12:30 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312412, encodeId=18e43124128e, content=技术力量.道德水平, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=46, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=http://thirdwx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/vi_32/Q0j4TwGTfTKibA62IFMeUJEmSyIe8DvYFeERuOsfrRd8iano7nENqQU1dRR3tqeQOUL3eqgYgEZRT2t2iaEsib0JEw/132, createdBy=66771693911, createdName=易水河, createdTime=Sun May 06 06:05:08 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312384, encodeId=1e24312384bd, content=我们这边还好 有几家没有因此受限, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=46, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=a35e76003, createdName=871538379, createdTime=Sun May 06 05:26:26 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312355, encodeId=96b83123558f, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=20, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sun May 06 00:02:10 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312350, encodeId=5c2631235014, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=23, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sat May 05 23:52:12 CST 2018, time=2018-05-05, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-05-06 易水河

    技术力量.道德水平

    0

  8. 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topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=93f31631454, createdName=1dd8c52fm63(暂无匿称), createdTime=Sun May 06 06:12:30 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312412, encodeId=18e43124128e, content=技术力量.道德水平, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=46, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=http://thirdwx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/vi_32/Q0j4TwGTfTKibA62IFMeUJEmSyIe8DvYFeERuOsfrRd8iano7nENqQU1dRR3tqeQOUL3eqgYgEZRT2t2iaEsib0JEw/132, createdBy=66771693911, createdName=易水河, createdTime=Sun May 06 06:05:08 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312384, encodeId=1e24312384bd, content=我们这边还好 有几家没有因此受限, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=46, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], 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createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sat May 05 23:52:12 CST 2018, time=2018-05-05, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-05-06 871538379

    我们这边还好 有几家没有因此受限

    0

  9. 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attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=a35e76003, createdName=871538379, createdTime=Sun May 06 05:26:26 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312355, encodeId=96b83123558f, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=20, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sun May 06 00:02:10 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312350, encodeId=5c2631235014, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=23, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sat May 05 23:52:12 CST 2018, time=2018-05-05, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-05-06 戒馋,懒,贪

    谢谢分享学习了

    0

  10. 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createdBy=ee0c36549805, createdName=chaojitidian, createdTime=Mon Sep 24 14:23:00 CST 2018, time=2018-09-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1425553, encodeId=2580142555346, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=b04463e47bb' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#民营医院#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=0, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=63747, encryptionId=b04463e47bb, topicName=民营医院)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=b5213977322, createdName=LSJ112, createdTime=Mon May 07 14:23:00 CST 2018, time=2018-05-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312627, encodeId=499f31262eba, content=民营医院.有时候挺好的.有时候就很被动, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=39, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, 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attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=a35e76003, createdName=871538379, createdTime=Sun May 06 05:26:26 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312355, encodeId=96b83123558f, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=20, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sun May 06 00:02:10 CST 2018, time=2018-05-06, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=312350, encodeId=5c2631235014, content=谢谢分享学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=23, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM7GibvIBibibnnnvpajk2stlDF5oichYahI6Bia8uxeTBFoPbdoHWebyXf9eal9FNgUF2lNcrwoZicM3BvQ/0, createdBy=a3742066385, createdName=戒馋,懒,贪, createdTime=Sat May 05 23:52:12 CST 2018, time=2018-05-05, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-05-05 戒馋,懒,贪

    谢谢分享学习了

    0

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